Comments on: Muddy Waters at Brandeis University http://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/ New York art news and reviews. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:20:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-130291 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:02:33 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-130291 (okay, real fast: there are people in America who try very hard not to be implicated in capitalism, who would at the very least dare to say they don't support capitalism (and there's a great article in the Jan 26 issue of the New Yorker called the Dystopians (Ben McGrath) that deals with some iterations of this impulse). For sure such a position places one in the margins, and perhaps appears detached- but I think these places are where the more interesting phenomena originate)thanks again, P. (okay, real fast: there are people in America who try very hard not to be implicated in capitalism, who would at the very least dare to say they don’t support capitalism (and there’s a great article in the Jan 26 issue of the New Yorker called the Dystopians (Ben McGrath) that deals with some iterations of this impulse). For sure such a position places one in the margins, and perhaps appears detached- but I think these places are where the more interesting phenomena originate)

thanks again, P.

]]> By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-315363 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:02:00 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-315363 (okay, real fast: there are people in America who try very hard not to be implicated in capitalism, who would at the very least dare to say they don't support capitalism (and there's a great article in the Jan 26 issue of the New Yorker called the Dystopians (Ben McGrath) that deals with some iterations of this impulse). For sure such a position places one in the margins, and perhaps appears detached- but I think these places are where the more interesting phenomena originate)thanks again, P. (okay, real fast: there are people in America who try very hard not to be implicated in capitalism, who would at the very least dare to say they don’t support capitalism (and there’s a great article in the Jan 26 issue of the New Yorker called the Dystopians (Ben McGrath) that deals with some iterations of this impulse). For sure such a position places one in the margins, and perhaps appears detached- but I think these places are where the more interesting phenomena originate)

thanks again, P.

]]> By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-130287 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:56:24 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-130287 Hey, I appreciate the exchange, and I'll keep it short. Fundamentally comparing an open New Museum to a closed Rose neglects my whole argument that something like an open Brandeis U. art center can be as much a boon to a community, depending on its final form. Come on.Finally, since when is being idealistic an epithet? The examples that have been set for at least resisting the culture industry/capitalism are numerous, and constitute a front of 'advanced' cultural thinking that is taken as a given. The tragedy is that the mindset of the industry is so ubiquitous now that it's upheld by so many people; this must account for the (admittedly) meandering thoughts of an engaged artist to be determined to support detached cynicism. I don't think where I'm coming from is either detached or cynical, quite the contrary, where it comes to art.But anyway, longer than I meant it to be, and thanks again for the exchange! Hey, I appreciate the exchange, and I’ll keep it short. Fundamentally comparing an open New Museum to a closed Rose neglects my whole argument that something like an open Brandeis U. art center can be as much a boon to a community, depending on its final form. Come on.

Finally, since when is being idealistic an epithet? The examples that have been set for at least resisting the culture industry/capitalism are numerous, and constitute a front of ‘advanced’ cultural thinking that is taken as a given. The tragedy is that the mindset of the industry is so ubiquitous now that it’s upheld by so many people; this must account for the (admittedly) meandering thoughts of an engaged artist to be determined to support detached cynicism. I don’t think where I’m coming from is either detached or cynical, quite the contrary, where it comes to art.

But anyway, longer than I meant it to be, and thanks again for the exchange!

]]> By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-315362 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:56:00 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-315362 Hey, I appreciate the exchange, and I'll keep it short. Fundamentally comparing an open New Museum to a closed Rose neglects my whole argument that something like an open Brandeis U. art center can be as much a boon to a community, depending on its final form. Come on.Finally, since when is being idealistic an epithet? The examples that have been set for at least resisting the culture industry/capitalism are numerous, and constitute a front of 'advanced' cultural thinking that is taken as a given. The tragedy is that the mindset of the industry is so ubiquitous now that it's upheld by so many people; this must account for the (admittedly) meandering thoughts of an engaged artist to be determined to support detached cynicism. I don't think where I'm coming from is either detached or cynical, quite the contrary, where it comes to art.But anyway, longer than I meant it to be, and thanks again for the exchange! Hey, I appreciate the exchange, and I’ll keep it short. Fundamentally comparing an open New Museum to a closed Rose neglects my whole argument that something like an open Brandeis U. art center can be as much a boon to a community, depending on its final form. Come on.

Finally, since when is being idealistic an epithet? The examples that have been set for at least resisting the culture industry/capitalism are numerous, and constitute a front of ‘advanced’ cultural thinking that is taken as a given. The tragedy is that the mindset of the industry is so ubiquitous now that it’s upheld by so many people; this must account for the (admittedly) meandering thoughts of an engaged artist to be determined to support detached cynicism. I don’t think where I’m coming from is either detached or cynical, quite the contrary, where it comes to art.

But anyway, longer than I meant it to be, and thanks again for the exchange!

]]> By: Art Fag Cityhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-130223 Art Fag City Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:12:49 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-130223 @David. I don't have time to respond to this in depth, but put simply I don't agree. The Brandeis is not the New Museum. The Rose Art Museum will be closed. The New Museum is open to the public. I don't see how you can possibly say there's no loss when one won't be open to the public anymore.Personally, I think this idea of not wanting to support manifestations of the culture industry is a little idealistic. It's like saying you don't want to support capitalism. You might not like it, but you're part of the system. I'd much rather take a position on the way that system is run than let detached cynicism run it. @David. I don’t have time to respond to this in depth, but put simply I don’t agree. The Brandeis is not the New Museum. The Rose Art Museum will be closed. The New Museum is open to the public. I don’t see how you can possibly say there’s no loss when one won’t be open to the public anymore.

Personally, I think this idea of not wanting to support manifestations of the culture industry is a little idealistic. It’s like saying you don’t want to support capitalism. You might not like it, but you’re part of the system. I’d much rather take a position on the way that system is run than let detached cynicism run it.

]]> By: Art Fag Cityhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-315361 Art Fag City Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:12:00 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-315361 @David. I don't have time to respond to this in depth, but put simply I don't agree. The Brandeis is not the New Museum. The Rose Art Museum will be closed. The New Museum is open to the public. I don't see how you can possibly say there's no loss when one won't be open to the public anymore.Personally, I think this idea of not wanting to support manifestations of the culture industry is a little idealistic. It's like saying you don't want to support capitalism. You might not like it, but you're part of the system. I'd much rather take a position on the way that system is run than let detached cynicism run it. @David. I don’t have time to respond to this in depth, but put simply I don’t agree. The Brandeis is not the New Museum. The Rose Art Museum will be closed. The New Museum is open to the public. I don’t see how you can possibly say there’s no loss when one won’t be open to the public anymore.

Personally, I think this idea of not wanting to support manifestations of the culture industry is a little idealistic. It’s like saying you don’t want to support capitalism. You might not like it, but you’re part of the system. I’d much rather take a position on the way that system is run than let detached cynicism run it.

]]> By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-130115 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:48:13 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-130115 I don't really agree with your premise, Art Fag City, not all that much. I mean, I live in New York for similar reasons, but I have difficulty with the ideas in your statement that communities grow where great art is accessible. For one thing, what's great art- if it's art that a lot of people like then there is a lot of it in Chelsea, but I tend not to think of it in that way.If art binds people, I think it does so in all kinds of ways, not necessarily through museum collections. Rose is a part of Brandeis University, and there are models for a university-based art center with exhibition spaces and studios, and programming, but without a permanent collection, that go far in advancing a community. I'm thinking of a Wexner Center-type of place. Also, unless they changed policy with their new digs, the New Museum has no permanent collection to speak of; does the Walker?Anyway, my point isn't to come out as an advocate for this type of thing. But I can see how, if Brandeis truly remains committed to art, a first-rate art center can be had that doesn't include a permanent collection in its mission, and I don't think that's offensive.I think it would be better, though, if some facet of the art community (and I think of artists themselves, here) were less like advocates or lobbyists and more like journalists or something, more philosophical (wigs can call out my superiority complex at that point, I guess). That's what I was originally getting at. I don't like the idea that as an artist I'm duty-bound to support manifestations of the culture industry. Really, there are plenty of galleries I'd be glad to see close, and somehow I think "we" should all feel that way. I don’t really agree with your premise, Art Fag City, not all that much. I mean, I live in New York for similar reasons, but I have difficulty with the ideas in your statement that communities grow where great art is accessible. For one thing, what’s great art- if it’s art that a lot of people like then there is a lot of it in Chelsea, but I tend not to think of it in that way.

If art binds people, I think it does so in all kinds of ways, not necessarily through museum collections. Rose is a part of Brandeis University, and there are models for a university-based art center with exhibition spaces and studios, and programming, but without a permanent collection, that go far in advancing a community. I’m thinking of a Wexner Center-type of place. Also, unless they changed policy with their new digs, the New Museum has no permanent collection to speak of; does the Walker?

Anyway, my point isn’t to come out as an advocate for this type of thing. But I can see how, if Brandeis truly remains committed to art, a first-rate art center can be had that doesn’t include a permanent collection in its mission, and I don’t think that’s offensive.

I think it would be better, though, if some facet of the art community (and I think of artists themselves, here) were less like advocates or lobbyists and more like journalists or something, more philosophical (wigs can call out my superiority complex at that point, I guess). That’s what I was originally getting at. I don’t like the idea that as an artist I’m duty-bound to support manifestations of the culture industry. Really, there are plenty of galleries I’d be glad to see close, and somehow I think “we” should all feel that way.

]]> By: Davidhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-315360 David Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:48:00 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-315360 I don't really agree with your premise, Art Fag City, not all that much. I mean, I live in New York for similar reasons, but I have difficulty with the ideas in your statement that communities grow where great art is accessible. For one thing, what's great art- if it's art that a lot of people like then there is a lot of it in Chelsea, but I tend not to think of it in that way.If art binds people, I think it does so in all kinds of ways, not necessarily through museum collections. Rose is a part of Brandeis University, and there are models for a university-based art center with exhibition spaces and studios, and programming, but without a permanent collection, that go far in advancing a community. I'm thinking of a Wexner Center-type of place. Also, unless they changed policy with their new digs, the New Museum has no permanent collection to speak of; does the Walker?Anyway, my point isn't to come out as an advocate for this type of thing. But I can see how, if Brandeis truly remains committed to art, a first-rate art center can be had that doesn't include a permanent collection in its mission, and I don't think that's offensive.I think it would be better, though, if some facet of the art community (and I think of artists themselves, here) were less like advocates or lobbyists and more like journalists or something, more philosophical (wigs can call out my superiority complex at that point, I guess). That's what I was originally getting at. I don't like the idea that as an artist I'm duty-bound to support manifestations of the culture industry. Really, there are plenty of galleries I'd be glad to see close, and somehow I think "we" should all feel that way. I don’t really agree with your premise, Art Fag City, not all that much. I mean, I live in New York for similar reasons, but I have difficulty with the ideas in your statement that communities grow where great art is accessible. For one thing, what’s great art- if it’s art that a lot of people like then there is a lot of it in Chelsea, but I tend not to think of it in that way.

If art binds people, I think it does so in all kinds of ways, not necessarily through museum collections. Rose is a part of Brandeis University, and there are models for a university-based art center with exhibition spaces and studios, and programming, but without a permanent collection, that go far in advancing a community. I’m thinking of a Wexner Center-type of place. Also, unless they changed policy with their new digs, the New Museum has no permanent collection to speak of; does the Walker?

Anyway, my point isn’t to come out as an advocate for this type of thing. But I can see how, if Brandeis truly remains committed to art, a first-rate art center can be had that doesn’t include a permanent collection in its mission, and I don’t think that’s offensive.

I think it would be better, though, if some facet of the art community (and I think of artists themselves, here) were less like advocates or lobbyists and more like journalists or something, more philosophical (wigs can call out my superiority complex at that point, I guess). That’s what I was originally getting at. I don’t like the idea that as an artist I’m duty-bound to support manifestations of the culture industry. Really, there are plenty of galleries I’d be glad to see close, and somehow I think “we” should all feel that way.

]]> By: Art Fag Cityhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-129657 Art Fag City Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:27:33 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-129657 @David I think of it like this: I live in New York because I don't think there is a replacement for seeing contemporary art in person in Chelsea and in the Lower East Side nor the community formed around it. Communities grow in locations where great art is accessible. So you can replace the museum with an education center, but the community won't stay. Art is what binds people. If you buy into the idea that there is no replacement for seeing great art in person, I don't see how you can say that the community will remain the same without it. @David I think of it like this: I live in New York because I don’t think there is a replacement for seeing contemporary art in person in Chelsea and in the Lower East Side nor the community formed around it. Communities grow in locations where great art is accessible. So you can replace the museum with an education center, but the community won’t stay. Art is what binds people. If you buy into the idea that there is no replacement for seeing great art in person, I don’t see how you can say that the community will remain the same without it.

]]> By: Art Fag Cityhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/02/02/muddy-waters-at-brandeis-university/comment-page-1/#comment-315359 Art Fag City Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:27:00 +0000 http://www.artfagcity.com/?p=4832#comment-315359 @David I think of it like this: I live in New York because I don't think there is a replacement for seeing contemporary art in person in Chelsea and in the Lower East Side nor the community formed around it. Communities grow in locations where great art is accessible. So you can replace the museum with an education center, but the community won't stay. Art is what binds people. If you buy into the idea that there is no replacement for seeing great art in person, I don't see how you can say that the community will remain the same without it. @David I think of it like this: I live in New York because I don’t think there is a replacement for seeing contemporary art in person in Chelsea and in the Lower East Side nor the community formed around it. Communities grow in locations where great art is accessible. So you can replace the museum with an education center, but the community won’t stay. Art is what binds people. If you buy into the idea that there is no replacement for seeing great art in person, I don’t see how you can say that the community will remain the same without it.

]]>