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	<title>Comments on: Massive Links! National Edition</title>
	<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/</link>
	<description>As relevant as Eric Fischl. New York art news, reviews and gossip.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hrag</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66223</link>
		<author>Hrag</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66223</guid>
					<description>I vote for more porn on AFC!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vote for more porn on AFC!</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler Green</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66236</link>
		<author>Tyler Green</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66236</guid>
					<description>Just because it's happened before doesn't mean it should happen again.

Just because a show is possibly likely to appeal to a large audience doesn't mean it necessarily belongs. I mean, by that standard the NGA would do a show of Darth Vader costumes.

It's not about the work, it's about the museum's decision. And how exactly is my position elitist?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because it&#8217;s happened before doesn&#8217;t mean it should happen again.</p>
<p>Just because a show is possibly likely to appeal to a large audience doesn&#8217;t mean it necessarily belongs. I mean, by that standard the NGA would do a show of Darth Vader costumes.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about the work, it&#8217;s about the museum&#8217;s decision. And how exactly is my position elitist?!</p>
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		<title>By: Art Fag City</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66240</link>
		<author>Art Fag City</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66240</guid>
					<description>Ultimately I didn't have a problem with the Barney show at the Guggenheim because I felt the work was strong enough on its own to be there.  

To be clear, I never said that museums should only consider audience draw as their criteria for launching a show. In the case of Misrach it's a positive because it will connect more people with Fine Art photography, not in the case of Darth Vader.  

The implication in the MAN posts is that the commercial viability of the exhibition makes it less valid, which sounds elitist. I don't see how the museum's decision can be separated from the work. Of course, I'm open to be proven wrong on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ultimately I didn&#8217;t have a problem with the Barney show at the Guggenheim because I felt the work was strong enough on its own to be there.  </p>
<p>To be clear, I never said that museums should only consider audience draw as their criteria for launching a show. In the case of Misrach it&#8217;s a positive because it will connect more people with Fine Art photography, not in the case of Darth Vader.  </p>
<p>The implication in the MAN posts is that the commercial viability of the exhibition makes it less valid, which sounds elitist. I don&#8217;t see how the museum&#8217;s decision can be separated from the work. Of course, I&#8217;m open to be proven wrong on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler Green</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66246</link>
		<author>Tyler Green</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66246</guid>
					<description>Where did I imply that the commercial viability of the work made it less valid? I just re-read it and I can't find a whiff of that. Heck, I don't even know if the work was commercially viable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where did I imply that the commercial viability of the work made it less valid? I just re-read it and I can&#8217;t find a whiff of that. Heck, I don&#8217;t even know if the work was commercially viable.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Fag City</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66261</link>
		<author>Art Fag City</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66261</guid>
					<description>My response was based on your choice to explicitly describe the galleries the exhibition came from as commercial (twice), coupled with the decision take issue with this particular show, which is likely to be a crowd pleaser. 

If you say it wasn't your intent to imply that the commercial viability of the work made it any less valid, I'm willing to accept that but I'm still entirely unclear on what the problem is.  What is wrong with the enlargement of a commercial show?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response was based on your choice to explicitly describe the galleries the exhibition came from as commercial (twice), coupled with the decision take issue with this particular show, which is likely to be a crowd pleaser. </p>
<p>If you say it wasn&#8217;t your intent to imply that the commercial viability of the work made it any less valid, I&#8217;m willing to accept that but I&#8217;m still entirely unclear on what the problem is.  What is wrong with the enlargement of a commercial show?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler Green</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66275</link>
		<author>Tyler Green</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66275</guid>
					<description>I have no idea where this "commercial viability" thing came from. I didn't raise it, so I'm not going to address it. Of course I referred to the show as coming from a commercial gallery: Pace is a commercial art gallery; it is not an art museum. There is a profound difference.

Shouldn't an art museum -- with all that implies, both legally and otherwise -- strive to do more than merely re-hang a Pace show?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea where this &#8220;commercial viability&#8221; thing came from. I didn&#8217;t raise it, so I&#8217;m not going to address it. Of course I referred to the show as coming from a commercial gallery: Pace is a commercial art gallery; it is not an art museum. There is a profound difference.</p>
<p>Shouldn&#8217;t an art museum &#8212; with all that implies, both legally and otherwise &#8212; strive to do more than merely re-hang a Pace show?!</p>
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		<title>By: Art Fag City</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66284</link>
		<author>Art Fag City</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-66284</guid>
					<description>It sounds like you're saying the show at Pace isn't good enough for the museum. That's fine, but it's likely to be challenged in a time when large commercial galleries increasingly launch museum quality shows.  The fact that the gallery is a business in and of itself doesn't explain why the Pace show is insufficient for a museum (but it is what led me to believe you were taking an elitist position.) It also doesn't tell me what the National Gallery needs to do to make it better. The only evidence I've read so far is the tagged on observation that they didn't produce a catalog (which -- correct me if I'm wrong -- isn't entirely unusual for what sounds like a relatively small show). 

I don't understand why you assume I should know so much about a show I haven't seen.  I also don't know what legalities are involved for the museum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like you&#8217;re saying the show at Pace isn&#8217;t good enough for the museum. That&#8217;s fine, but it&#8217;s likely to be challenged in a time when large commercial galleries increasingly launch museum quality shows.  The fact that the gallery is a business in and of itself doesn&#8217;t explain why the Pace show is insufficient for a museum (but it is what led me to believe you were taking an elitist position.) It also doesn&#8217;t tell me what the National Gallery needs to do to make it better. The only evidence I&#8217;ve read so far is the tagged on observation that they didn&#8217;t produce a catalog (which &#8212; correct me if I&#8217;m wrong &#8212; isn&#8217;t entirely unusual for what sounds like a relatively small show). </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why you assume I should know so much about a show I haven&#8217;t seen.  I also don&#8217;t know what legalities are involved for the museum.</p>
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		<title>By: tom moody</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-69151</link>
		<author>tom moody</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-69151</guid>
					<description>Coming to this a little late. Since Tyler isn't likely to come back to this thread I'll refer to him in the third person.

It's kind of funny to watch him deny his own words here.

Paddy, he asks you, "Where did I imply that the commercial viability of the work made it less valid?"

Well, in the Sillman story he wrote that "The Hirshhorn exhibition is a commercial-gallery sales opportunity dropped into a museum." He used the word "commercial" twice more in that short post and three times in the short Misrach post.

The clear import of all this repetition is that there is something suspect about "commerce," that the selection of the work was made with a view to immediate marketing needs--choosing "available" work shown in the last couple of years--and not the long view of posterity. Green said as much in the Sillman review.

But when called on it, he said his use of "commercial" was just to differentiate a museum from a gallery and carries no value judgment. But he could just as easily do that by saying "private art gallery" to distinguish it from a public institution. The repeated use of "commercial" was scolding.

It's the noodgy hectoring that bugs me more than elitism. Most of us in the gallery scene are inured to its web of incestuous relationships and just want to know "is the damn show any good?" (My own disillusionment came 17 years ago when the Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth included William Wegman's publicity photos for the movie "Hook" in a mini-retrospective of his, the same month "Hook" opened.)

Art is done on shoestring budgets relative to other forms of amusement. Great art shows (like great art articles) are a gift and can come together under the worst of circumstances. Pointing out those circumstances again and again, while offering the barest of discussion of the actual art being shown, isn't muckraking, it's ankle biting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming to this a little late. Since Tyler isn&#8217;t likely to come back to this thread I&#8217;ll refer to him in the third person.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of funny to watch him deny his own words here.</p>
<p>Paddy, he asks you, &#8220;Where did I imply that the commercial viability of the work made it less valid?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, in the Sillman story he wrote that &#8220;The Hirshhorn exhibition is a commercial-gallery sales opportunity dropped into a museum.&#8221; He used the word &#8220;commercial&#8221; twice more in that short post and three times in the short Misrach post.</p>
<p>The clear import of all this repetition is that there is something suspect about &#8220;commerce,&#8221; that the selection of the work was made with a view to immediate marketing needs&#8211;choosing &#8220;available&#8221; work shown in the last couple of years&#8211;and not the long view of posterity. Green said as much in the Sillman review.</p>
<p>But when called on it, he said his use of &#8220;commercial&#8221; was just to differentiate a museum from a gallery and carries no value judgment. But he could just as easily do that by saying &#8220;private art gallery&#8221; to distinguish it from a public institution. The repeated use of &#8220;commercial&#8221; was scolding.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the noodgy hectoring that bugs me more than elitism. Most of us in the gallery scene are inured to its web of incestuous relationships and just want to know &#8220;is the damn show any good?&#8221; (My own disillusionment came 17 years ago when the Modern Art Museum of Fort Worth included William Wegman&#8217;s publicity photos for the movie &#8220;Hook&#8221; in a mini-retrospective of his, the same month &#8220;Hook&#8221; opened.)</p>
<p>Art is done on shoestring budgets relative to other forms of amusement. Great art shows (like great art articles) are a gift and can come together under the worst of circumstances. Pointing out those circumstances again and again, while offering the barest of discussion of the actual art being shown, isn&#8217;t muckraking, it&#8217;s ankle biting.</p>
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		<title>By: Personism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-06-20</title>
		<link>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-69315</link>
		<author>Personism &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-06-20</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.artfagcity.com/2008/06/10/massive-links-national-edition/#comment-69315</guid>
					<description>[...] Art Fag City » Massive Links! National Edition Please to be reading the comments here. Good thread. (tags: art photography museums galleries)   Digg This&#160;&#160;&#160; Save to Del.icio.us [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Art Fag City » Massive Links! National Edition Please to be reading the comments here. Good thread. (tags: art photography museums galleries)   Digg This&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Save to Del.icio.us [&#8230;]</p>
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